I am human too.
Domenika Niehoff in conversation with François Maher Presley
Domenika Niehoff and I spent many months together. She took me across the Reeperbahn, showed me the brothels, pimps, hookers who took care of me in a touching way, showed me Herbertstrasse, let me sit in her shop window and look at customers, just as we were frightened by customers - due to my presence were inspected. She introduced me to the scene and also gave me insights into her own life and feelings. An interesting time for me, which later led to my book about a young prostitute from the Czech Republic, “Tomas”. At that time, at the beginning of 1990, this interview was created, which we reproduce here in succession due to the excess length and which was also praised in the ZEIT. In addition to Hans Eppendorfer, Domenika was one of the people for me who had the greatest influence on my thinking and writing, my experiences in our community and my experiences in the period from 1987 to 1991. They showed me the many sides of our social reality. I thank both deceased for that.
Everyone has already read everything about Domenika Niehoff, everyone knows better, some even know her, don't admit it or brag about it. Domenika, the whore, portrays human lust, like a man-eating leather woman, like a sex machine. Hardly any journalist was really interested in Domenika as a person, simply chatting privately with her without thinking about the big headline, the teardrop, in the back of their minds, hardly anyone can imagine that this woman is a believer, helps others and sometimes helps herself needs. The scandal was always important - never the feeling. The object was important - never the person.
François Maher Presley: Do you believe that young prostitutes only come from socially disadvantaged and broken families?
Domerika Niehoff: I think that socially disadvantaged families don't always have to be broken families. In the so-called upper class there are just as many broken families, a great deal of misfortune, a great many problems, which are only covered up in the first few years by the financial possibilities of such a household. The main factor seems to be the broken family. And that is very often found in these monetary and social circles.
The public demands that tough action against child prostitution be taken. Our politicians also belong to this public. Are there no suitors from this profession?
I could imagine that politicians from St. Georg are looking for a 14-year-old just like others. By and large, it's not just the common worker. Here, too, all layers are affected. For me, by the way, they're not suitors. The proper suitor looks for a whore, he looks for a child. For me, these are criminals who get lost specifically on a 14 year old. We don't need to fool ourselves, they come from all social groups.
What could lawmakers do to help these young people?
The recognition will probably come. As a profession, we are currently completely without rights. However, this recognition will only apply from the age of 18. In the past, the young fairy tales were simply taken away. But that is not enough. You have to look after these children, of course. Apart from the fact that the missing love and understanding should have been shown to the children earlier. Making up for that at the age of 14 is a bit late. Education can also help. I had students recently. They wanted to report on this topic in their school newspaper. The teacher agreed. The school principal wanted to forbid it. The students are 18 years old. That was interesting for them. After all, we're 400,000 and we can't just be struck off. The director can't say that something like that doesn't belong in the school newspaper. These young people need to be informed. Part of society comes to us. And we are part of society. You can't just keep quiet about us. That kind of thing annoys the boys too. They want to ask questions, know why people come to us.
Why can the director have forbidden it?
Of course we ourselves are also against the profession of “whore”, the social workers as well as the girls and me. Then the young girls come and ask themselves, will I be going to be a hairdresser or a whore? That would be too easy now. The experienced whores, however, want to pay taxes, they want to pay their contribution to the health insurance and pension, become part of the social network. For example, it would be possible to use a pension card to check who is buying. This should not be given to minors. I was once told that if we paid taxes in the same way as other people, this business would certainly be less interesting for many young girls. Perhaps that would keep many away.
Many girls and boys are obviously addicted to drugs, even infected with AIDS. What do you think of the fact that, for example, the deacon of the Protestant Church, Pioch, preaches that no condoms should be distributed, despite the fact that AIDS is contagious and deadly?
What else can I say about that?
Exactly what you think about it.
I can't say anything more. I can only remain silent.
Why would such a deacon come up with the idea of preaching such a thing?
What shouldn't be that shouldn't be.
Why can't it be?
For them we prostitutes are sinners. Sex and money are prohibited and forbidden for the Church.
Now what exactly is sin? Is it the Sin of Paying or Taking Money?
If it's a sin, both sides are sinners.
Where do you think the pain is greater when a man pays 150 DM for a 14-year-old or for the girl when this man has sex with her?
The pain is greater with the young girl. This is infinite with this child. She can't cope with it, can't handle it like me, for example. I have my men under control as opposed to them. The men have the girls under control.
Do you know what drugs cost?
I estimate 150 to 200 DM a day.
And if you don't have the money, you go on the street, for example. So does the price increase for mental suffering?
Yes. What you lose is priceless. The soul and the body suffer - suicide by installments - only suffering. A whore who wants to buy goes for the money. A drug addict walks primarily because of the drug. There is a difference.
So do a lot of young girls take to the streets for drugs?
Yes, very often.
Hark Bohm made the film “Yasemin”, which was widely acclaimed. Does the film have anything to do with reality?
I always say Hark Bohm has his problem with the Turks. The other Turkish problem is what the Turkish women really experience. One girl told me it would be very nice if her life turned out like the one in the movie. Unfortunately, she experienced exactly the opposite. The brother hit the German friend, the German mother and sister. Bohm's film really doesn't have much to do with reality.
How do you think someone reacts who was with you last night and now meets you on the street during the day?
I have a colleague who was outraged that a guest said to her: "I wouldn't say hello to you either if I saw you outside." I am very different. I have had my guests, whom I know better, sometimes for 15 years. If you want to say hello, you say hello. If you don't want to say hello, just let it go. I also understand those who don't want to say hello.
Isn't the whore also the whore of the soul who, in addition to the physical desires, must serve for the soul's?
I can only be used as long as I can take it. But a good whore is there to play the trash can too. This is our job.
Is there a lot of frustration or violence?
Oh, more frustration than violence. But there are also younger men who ask me whether everything is okay with them. They don't know anyone or don't want to ask any other person. And so it's anonymous. But I am ready to help. After all, I take money for it. The young girls do not have this experience.
Where is the greater feeling, with the suitor or with the whore?
With a real prostitute, there are no sensations at all. A real whore is ice cold, she takes the money and does her thing.
So more sensation in the client?
Yes, I can also let the man go small or big. I can play with the men.
And many men want to look small?
Many want that.
It should be the case that precisely those types of people who embody a lot of power and strength in society have a submissive basic attitude in private or sexual behavior. Do you notice?
Yes, it is striking. Recently, however, 18-year-olds have been coming and saying that I should do things with them that are supposedly not normal. For example, I experienced the war class. They wanted very hard hits, up to 200 pieces. For example, we once had a Jew. He was always looking for a bathroom with tiles, and we had to play concentration camp guards. He couldn't come to terms with his experiences. He can only process that if he repeats it with us over and over again. The war class still knew this stick. They want to be able to feel something. And the boys today, who may never have got it, who think they deserve it and get the punishment from us.
Are you religious?
Yes, I am so religious that I can say you cannot refuse to help.
What does religiosity mean for you?
Help. Help the weaker.
Which denomination do you belong to?
The Roman Catholic.
Do you pay chuch tax?
Yes, I pay church tax. I always paid for it consciously. I wouldn't leave church for the money.
And the tax is taken?
So far yes.
Do you receive church help?
Not yet.
So you pay church tax, are religious and yet Deacon Pioch does not want to help you?
Mr. Pioch helps - but only secretly. Why secretly ?! He does the administration for the Café Sperrgebiet.
But he refuses to let you help out there?
Yes.
How did you grow up?
I grew up very pious. I was always a prayer leader, I always pushed my way. I grew up with Catholic nuns and was in the church choir. The other day I asked the pastor of St. Pauli if I could sing with him in the choir, which he refused. However, he said on television that he would support me.
Until when did you live in the monastery?
From 4 to 14 years.
Do you remember an original incident?
So it wasn't particularly original, every morning “Praise be to Jesus Christ ...” and we oversleep: “Amen”. It was also not original that we had to pray three times a day - before eating, after eating, until the food was cold. My confession was actually original. What I had done. We had to go to confession every week, and each time I had to choose something different so that I had something to say at all.
What is confession? Do you think this is necessary?
I think confession is very important. If I have done something bad, I would like to tell someone and say, can you help me, what should I do ?. Living alone with guilt is bad. But now I do not consider it expedient to have to go to confession every week. You didn't do that much as a child.
You once told me that you ran away from the monastery with some children. Why?
For the reason that the young lady had always told the little children to hit themselves on the head with roller skates. She liked that and cheered the children, my sister was there too. I didn't think that's right. The most unpleasant experience was actually tying your pigtails to the bed, tying your hands and putting a stick on it. That was the sister Katharina, also a nun. I don't think she could reconcile that with her belief.
Are you still in contact with the children from that time?
I only found out from one person that she also hit the streets.
You had a very seditious mother.
Yes, very inflammatory. My mother was actually an anarchist. Anything to do with company was horrible to her.
Have you ever been in love?
Not so often.
Was that very important to you?
I haven't seen it in a long time.
Are you very committed?
When you're in love, you're really committed. But I don't think I could still do it today.
What is your type?
I can't say that. He doesn't need to be blonde or strong, the main thing is that he has a little brain in mind. And he has to help the weaker.
Did you want to start a family?
I wanted to do that when I was 15 or 16.
Wouldn't you like to be the woman who is betrayed by her husband with a prostitute today?
In my opinion, you cannot cheat a woman with a prostitute. I wrote that in my book back then. What we have with men is nothing. What the wives have with them is everything. I could imagine a partnership. Of course, I have nothing against a nice partner, against a friend.
You played theater in Düsseldorf.
Yes, I played the “seven deadly sins” there. That is the name of the piece by Brecht, and it suits me too. I could have played all seven. But they only gave me one role. I played the pride. I have to say that I cried a lot during rehearsals. The play had a lot to do with me. Whenever I play something, it has a lot to do with me. Two sisters move out to make good fortune and big money. it was the same with my sister and me. She died of it.
What do you feel like doing? What would you most like to do?
I would like to work in the Café Sperrgebiet, do the theater, some suitors on the side. I'm open to everything. I've already written a review. But it has to be as much as possible, colorful and mixed up. I can't imagine just sitting in the office.
Are you approached by newspapers or theaters?
The theater probably came to me through my first book. But I still think that they could offer me more, since everyone knows that I'm getting out.
Why did you write the book?
There were people from STERN with me with a photographer. They said I should do it. I thought why not. Nobody really knows how we are. Back then the conditions and the situation were not as bad as they are today - drugs in this style did not even exist. As it was then, I can also represent it. We had a housekeeper and anyone could come and go when they wanted. I wanted to close the gap between us and the others. I wanted to show the wives that this is how we do it and this is how you can do it too. It should help them privately.
You have been dragged through the press a lot. They are outraged about it.
I am outraged that what I say is ridiculed in some newspapers. Once a whore, always a whore. As if there was no exit for us. That outrags me. I've often said something social that was close to my heart and it didn't get in the press. If I start an argument with Erika Berger (Sexualhilfe RTL-plus, Red.), It is written everywhere. I cannot see that my commitment is being ridiculed. Take the BILD newspaper. It was about my social work. This text was published with a completely inappropriate image. The picture was three years old. At that time it was a club opening. They wanted to ridicule it again. I'm very angry about that. This thing is too serious for me. I'm just too involved for that. I'm too tired on Tuesday nights when I come home from social work. What do people actually want from me? Are you trying to ridicule a whore? Why is my argument with Berger going through all the media? But if I do something social, no newspaper is interested in it. You know, I forbid myself to be called Germany's most famous whore. Should be published, Germany's most dedicated whore.
Why does it happen anyway?
The cliché about the whores has to continue. Who wants to be the most famous whore? Something must be missing in the skull. I have to say, however, that the reaction of the common people on the street is very positive. I have a whole chest full of letters in which people persuade me to wish me luck. But the press thinks that people are just as crazy as they are.
Why do journalists act like this? Because of the requirement to become famous?
Maybe. Maybe they just want to make a fool of me.
Are you disappointed with that?
I am very disappointed with that. But there are also very good newspapers and committed journalists. For example Inge Stolpen, she called and said that she wanted to do something for me. If such a woman calls me and is outraged because she has known me for a longer time and better, or Ms. Klose, who is always very nice to me, then I am happy.
People come to you and want to write an engaging report ...
Please excuse me! If a girl like that arrives here and even spells my name wrong, then I can only assume that she is listening wrongly here too.
How can your commitment be supported?
There should be an appeal for donations in a sensible broadcast. But I stress that this call for donations is not intended for successful whores. For example, Achenbach once donated 500 DM for the Café Sperrgebiet in a talk show. A few months later a journalist called me and said: “Yes, Mr. Achenbach also donated for Herbertstrasse”. I was really outraged. Herbertstrasse doesn't need any money. The whores there earn their money. This call for donations is only for the 14 to 18 year old girls, of whom I always say, these are children who have lost their way, who are actually not whores.
Has the Senator for Social Affairs been with you to offer his help?
Only Meta Stölken asked the FDP. That is also significant. The politicians are afraid of contact. They're sending us a woman.
What did the good Meta Stölken want to do?
She said that we should get in touch.
Was that all?
Yes at least.
What is being done for the young girls in this café?
They really have a lot to do. For example, the easiest way to go to the authorities is done, the search for a flat, support with regard to speeches, dealing with emotional pain. A Turkish woman just arrived who no longer dared to go into the women's shelter, and they are also looking for an apartment.
You need a donor who can raise the weekly 150 DM for a painting course. What can be achieved with it?
The girls can express their feelings by painting.
And they have a painter for it.
Yes. She only needs 150 DM. She doesn't need more. No fee.
Tell me, do you know the word morality?
Yes I know that.
Please spell it!
MORAL
Can you think of a familiar name for each letter?
Yes sure.
Please name these names!
M for Momper, O for Otto, R for Rahlfs, A for Albrecht and L for Lummer. I got to know him personally. It fits in every corner.
You are also familiar with the word whore. Please spell that too!
WHORE
Can you think of names for this?
Yes, that too.
Thank you for the interview.
